Circle Mission Church
(The secretary speaks firstly as follows:)
Peace, FATHER: This is Reverend and Mrs. Williams.
FATHER: Pleased to meet you both. Come right around and take seats.
Rev. Williams: FATHER, I merely wanted to have an interview with YOU because of the fact that perhaps YOU have information that YOU probably could give me about this proposition that I am about to render. I think some years ago when I first met YOU I spoke to YOU concerning the matter, and at that time it was merely a small concern, as YOU heard me say.
In 1934 I went out in a place, a country community just about seven miles from the District of Columbia. (Rev. Williams then proceeds to explain in detail the vision he had received from the LORD which he wishes to carry out in the seven-acre tract of land, which is now paid for, and on which is temporarily established a church building and a place for outdoor meetings. The project is to be called The Community Institutional Church Inc. Rev. Williams explained, having been incorporated under the State Laws of Maryland. He shows FATHER one of this year's pamphlet programs, on the back of which is a drawing of the inspirational vision as to how it is to appear in the future when completed. He said it is to have a Church in the center and surrounding the Church are to be erected the following buildings: a Lecture Hall, and Agricultural and Science Hall and Library, a Recreational Center, a Home for the Aged, with a wing devoted to another charitable activity; and lastly, the Parsonage. He said at present that they let the place out through the week to all kinds of religions for Sunday School, etc., and picnics. He said,
"We feel GOD has given us this place for the benefit of all Churches, regardless to what religion or creed they may be"; and he added that each Sunday a different Church is invited out, or else volunteers to hold Services, and the collection is devoted to furthering the financial program for future building activities as described. Rev. Williams said, also, that the Church program is interracial and that one particular Sunday is devoted to what is called Interracial Day.
Rev. Williams then explained to FATHER an additional financial program which is carried out through means of issuing certificates to individuals, upon which appears the Church Seal; and in return, for a certain sum of money, they have their names inscribed as owning a certain footage of the ground. He told also of having received contributions from various individuals in sympathy with his work.
(Rev. Williams also showed pictures to FATHER of his institutional staff, pointing out that it was interracial, also interdenominational. Then he said:) So I feel that this is a good Movement for the purpose of bringing religion to humanity. So I intend to do all that I possibly can for that purpose to help humanity; and I feel that GOD has marked me to look after that kind of work as I said oh, I just don't remember how many years ago it was when I talked with YOU in New York. Do YOU remember when the American Legion Convention was there, and YOU took me down to one of YOUR places in the car?
Mrs. Williams: Yes, we came from Boston at that time.
FATHER: I do not bear record of it. Of course, it is always My Custom to be mindful and teach others to be mindful how to entertain strangers.
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: But, to be frank with You, I could not say that I Personally bear record of having ever seen either one of you. Of course I do have followers come to ME who say they are followers of Mine, and they have to retrace back and check back and refresh the correspondence in some way, for ME to even bear record of it.
Rev. Williams: Well, at the time I first met YOU I had a Legionnaire outfit; that is a suit, a cap and a cane, just as they had in the parade which they had at that particular time in New York. (The Reverend proceeds to explain just where he met FATHER in New York, and how FATHER had taken him to another place in the evening for Services, and what a wonderful time he had had. He spoke of how FATHER had mentioned other places to him one in particular in the upper part of New York. He then said:) I think YOU called it a country farm, FATHER, or something like that, YOU told me.
FATHER: Well, yes, the Peace Mission Movement is not, even say, just local; it is national and international. And, of course, we do have places commonly considered or known as our places in all parts of this Country and other countries. Of course, I do not Personally own anything.
Rev. Williams: Yes. So I did not know, I just thought I would relate this to YOU and perhaps there may be some way YOU could tell me of how we could raise money to put a little hurry on the work. Now, YOU understand, I am not coming to YOU to ask for any donation, or anything of the kind, but I am merely asking YOU, knowing YOU have the Inner Nature and YOU hear the Inner Voice and that YOU might be able to advise me.
(Rev. Williams then proceeds to tell FATHER more of his experiences in firstly venturing out in this program, and reiterates a good deal of the purposes firstly mentioned as to just why and how it is to function in the future. During the discourse FATHER notices the Reverend's hat had not been taken from him and hung up, and FATHER says:)
Pardon ME, I did not see your hat. They did not take your hat. I just saw you both came as though you did not have any hats.
(The Reverend assures FATHER it is perfectly all right; then FATHER says:) Of course, I have only a few minutes to spare; I thought I would see you first, before I started to interview. It might be quite amusing to you, but last night I finished My last interview last night in Newark, at about seven o'clock this morning! Then I drove home. My Cabinet Staff had lots of letters to proof read lots of letters to get out and practically all the way coming in from Newark we were proof reading letters. We have a way of having enough of our Staff with us to proof read and get out the matter for the paper while we are traveling as much of it as possible.
Rev. Williams: Well, YOU keep busy all right!
FATHER: And now I see some of the letters, and some across the hall in the next Office; so I will be quite busy; but I will be giving them five seconds (the interviewers)! This morning after we arrived here and had finished interviewing, finished the reading of the stack of letters we had to get out, as you see, we proof read at the Table the manuscript that was read at the Table the Sermon.
Rev. Williams: Yes, indeed. That was wonderful too!
FATHER: That is the way we get them out, the work, while we are eating and while we are traveling! And we will be giving about five seconds to the next group that I will be interviewing!
Mrs. Williams: Well, FATHER, may I ask YOU just one question before YOU are finished with this interview?
FATHER: Yes.
Mrs. Williams: I would like to ask YOU, what do YOU think of this plan?
FATHER: Well, it looks like a good plan. It looks quite beautiful; it looks like a nice set-up, as far as I can see, from a literary point of view, and the abstract, the drawing, which will be put into a blueprint, no doubt; and you will build after the fashion of the abstract, and it will be the fulfillment of the Reverend's vision, no doubt. So, I think it looks quite beautiful. (FATHER takes up one of the pamphlet programs, saying:) You say you wanted to leave this?
Rev. Williams: Yes, I did.
FATHER: Well, thank you. Thank you very much.
Mrs. Williams: We do thank YOU for Your time.
Rev. Williams: I appreciate the time YOU have given me, and I intend, if I may, to drop YOU a few lines some time, to let YOU know just how we are proceeding.
FATHER: Sure. You are welcome to do so. We will be pleased to hear from you.
Rev. Williams: All right.
FATHER: I have correspondence from all over. (FATHER opens The New Day before HIM, showing the Reverend and Mrs. Williams some of the places as HE says:) That is one of MY Places in Switzerland! I have many places in Switzerland. (Indicating another picture:) That is Panama, one of the Churches.
Rev. Williams (amazed): MY! It is really a Wonderful Work! It is universal!
Mrs. Williams: That is really wonderful!
Rev. Williams: Do YOU have one of those as an example?
(The secretary goes to get a copy.)
FATHER (turning another page): This is Bermuda.
Rev. Williams: Wonderful! Wonderful!
FATHER: And this is another place in Australia (indicating another picture).
Rev. Williams: When I finish telling the people what a wonderful affair this is, and if I could get something going like that down on that seven acres of ground, I will be doing the Work that GOD has laid on my heart to do!
FATHER (suddenly rising and indicating MOTHER DIVINE seated nearby): Pardon ME for not introducing you to MOTHER DIVINE. I customarily introduce MOTHER DIVINE, and all of the others are included. These are a few of the Staff with MOTHER.
Rev. Williams (also rising and bowing to MOTHER DIVINE): Why, I am more than delighted, MOTHER, to meet YOU and the rest of the Staff!
MOTHER: Pleased to meet you.
Rev. Williams (turning to FATHER): I wish YOU Godspeed indeed, and any time I might be able to do any good for YOU in Washington, all YOU need to do is to drop me a word! I know YOU have plenty of followers down there, but I know YOU might want something personally done down there, and I feel we should help each other in the Kingdom of GOD!
(At this juncture the interview is interrupted as FATHER is called to the phone. HE graciously says:) Excuse ME. Talk right on.
(While FATHER was Personally out of the Office, the Secretary brings the copies of The New Day desired by Reverend and Mrs. Williams, and, in turn, MOTHER presents them to them, explaining, when asked the price, that The New Day sells for five cents a copy, but that the Company gives FATHER a few copies for use in HIS Office and that anything from FATHER'S Office is gratis. There is no charge made. At this point FATHER re-enters, and Rev. Williams says:)
I don't know when I have had such a wonderful time in my whole life to be in such an Atmosphere as I have today! So I won't detain YOU all any longer. I will let YOU, FATHER, get at YOUR Work!
FATHER (picking up a different issue of The New Day): Some of them don't have all of the pictures not anything like all of the pictures of the different places in one issue of The New Day.
Rev. Williams: Is it a weekly paper?
FATHER: Yes. (At this point a New Day is laid in front of FATHER, turned to a number of HIS Proposals contained on enlarged copies of HIS various Peace Stamps. Rev. and Mrs. Williams gaze at them with interest, as FATHER says:)
This is quite explanatory in itself. These are some reprints of the Peace Stamps. (FATHER indicates the green Peace Stamp, the first on the page as HE says:) This is the Peace Stamp bearing My Proposal to Hitler and to President Roosevelt in 1938. (The Stamp reads as follows:)
PEACE
'PEACE TO THE WORLD AT LARGE"
FATHER DIVINE
Cables to Chancellor Hitler, Prime Minister Chamberlain, Premier Daladier,
Pres. Benes, Pres. Roosevelt Sept. 20, 1938 A.D.F.D.
"Why not propose purchase of coveted Czechoslovakian territory, with
Sudetens helping to pay for annexation, substituting co-operation and Peace
for terrible inhuman warfare consequences?" FATHER DIVINE
'It is My CONVICTION that ALL PEOPLE under the threat of war today PRAY that
PEACE may be made BEFORE, rather than AFTER war."
PRESIDENT ROOSEVELT
(FATHER then says:)
When they failed to accept of it, then I could see the war was continuing, and I said, in 1939
(FATHER indicates the next Peace Stamp, as HE says:) this was the next Proposal "The Unification of the Three Americas". This Stamp reads as follows:
PEACE
ONE NATION ONE LANGUAGE
ONE FLAG ONE SPEECH
Telegrams to Pres. Roosevelt, V. Pres. Garner and U.S. Senate, Hon. Bankhead, House of Representatives, Sec. of State Hull and Sec. of War Woodring Dec. 9, 1939 A.D.F.D.
"Why not Unite the Three Americas as a National and International Defense for Peace? Let there be THE UNITED COUNTRIES OF AMERICA even as this is the Unites States of America; if not, I propose that the United States purchase Central and South America, and make ALL the AMERICAS ONE DEMOCRACY."
FATHER DIVINE
Mrs. Williams: Isn't that Wonderful?
FATHER: That is where the composition came in about "Unite the Three Americas" and in the most recent years it has been transposed to "Unite AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND and AMERICA"!
Rev. Williams: It is Wonderful!
FATHER (indicating the next Peace Stamp): This was, "Everybody Buy Bonds!" (The Stamp reads as follows:)
EVERYBODY BUY BONDS!
January 12, 1944 A.D.F.D.
"For Victory let all the Allies Unite Consolidatedly and every American Citizen buy Bonds unlimitedly for Victory and a Just and Lasting Peace; and for Reconstruction, Mass Production, Rescuing the Perishing and to care for the Dying.
The Axis will unconditionally surrender by sending an Ambassage desiring conditions of Peace." (See St. Luke 14:31, 32)
REV. M. J. DIVINE
(FATHER then says:) Whatsoever I do, I do Scripturally and Evangelically!
Rev. Williams: Yes, YOU can back it up.
FATHER: When I said, "Everybody Buy Bonds!" the people, especially of the religious class, thought because I represent Peace and supposed to be opposed to war altogether, they thought I should not have said, Everybody Buy Bonds!" But, you see, this is St. Luke 14:31,32. (FATHER quotes these verses, as follows:)
'Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.'
(FATHER then continues speaking as follows:) And I said, "The Axis will
unconditionally surrender by sending an ambassage, desiring conditions of peace." and
they did it!
Rev. Williams: That is prophecy
FATHER: And when Mussolini and Hitler, the two governments, surrendered, according to My Proposal, and the Japanese Government continued to go on in May, May the seventh I sent this V-Letter to the Representative, Hirohito, and told him to surrender unconditionally! (FATHER omits the Peace Stamp which is next in line and which speaks of proposing at the International Conference of Nations the Unification of all the mutual Allied Sovereignties of the world and letting the United Countries of the world be One Big Universal Allied Sovereignty, and HE points out to the Reverend the V-Letter a facsimile of which appears in print nextly on the page, and which reads as follows:)
Rev. M.J. Divine
764-772 S. Broad Street
Philadelphia 46, Pa.
May 7, 1945 A.D.F.D.
Premier Hirohito
Commander-in-Chief of the
Army and Navy of Japan
Your Excellency:
I, Rev. M.J. Divine, known throughout the universe as FATHER DIVINE, for humanity's sake and the redemption of millions of human bodies, do hereby request, appeal and demand of you and yours an immediate unconditional surrender, as you can see the results of this inhuman global war, which has cost the lives of upward forty million souls. You can see the predicament of your Axis comrades and the destruction they brought upon themselves and their subjects and millions of the American Allies, as well as billions of dollars in natural and national resources, only to be obliged to unconditionally surrender or to be totally annihilated and become extinct. It is therefore essential for you, and the only hope of your redemption and the redemption of your nation, to make an unconditional surrender immediately!
With the hope that others might be even as I AM, this leaves ME Well, Healthy, Joyful, Peaceful, Lively, Loving, Successful, Prosperous and Happy in Spirit, Body and Mind and in every organ, muscle, sinew, joint, limb, vein and bone and even in every ATOM, fibre and cell of My Bodily Form.
Respectfully and Sincere, I AM
REV. M. J. DIVINE (Better known as FATHER DIVINE)
(FATHER then says:) When they failed to surrender unconditionally four months after I sent this Letter, the first Bomb fell! If they would have taken cognizance of the insignificance of My Message I sent them in this V-Letter, all who were killed in the falling of the two Atom Bombs, they would have been alive today!
Rev. Williams: Yes, I can see in that I can see that the Fire of the Inner Voice was speaking through YOU! Isn't that wonderful? My! Well, that would be history for me if I could just take this one along too!
FATHER: Yes. And all of these Proposals are absolutely in keeping with and according to My Principles. (FATHER indicates the Stamps themselves as they appear in the order given, under the glass on His desk. HE then says:) These are the Stamps I mentioned here, but (indicating the enlarged reprints of the Stamps in The New Day, FATHER explains:) these are enlarged for The New Day. It makes it a little more easy to read.
Rev. Williams: Yes, it does.
(FATHER turns another page, and skipping a few more of His Peace Stamps, HE points to one in particular as HE says:)
And before Mr. Truman, before the Civil Rights came, with his committee, I
made an Appeal. That was My Proposal to him! You can trace it back and see
the date and the time!
(FATHER reads the heading of the Peace Stamp in question, as follows:)
"To the President of the United States of Today": June 11, 1947 A.D.F.D.
(FATHER then says:) I sent this Message to him! It is Wonderful! (The text of the Stamp is as follows:)
I appeal to you and every Representative and Senator in accord for the Salvation of yourselves and your subjects here and at large, you had better make Laws immediately to bring an end to segregation and discrimination and to bring an end to the rights of states that are unconstitutional to have their sovereign rights.
I appeal to the Federal Government and its Representatives to cross the borders of all sovereign states and break every state law that is unconstitutional and that will endorse murder, vice and crime such as those of many of the states of the Union. The time is out for that!
REV. M. J. DIVINE, Ms. D.
(Better known as FATHER DIVINE)
(FATHER then says:) And he took cognizance of it!
Rev. Williams: Is that right!
FATHER: He took cognizance of it and went about to bring about the same rights! to bring an end to segregation! It is Wonderful! Rev. Williams: It is more work done, seemingly, since Truman has been in, with the Equal Rights Program, than ever! FATHER: Sure!
Rev. Williams: I live in Washington and I know, not before in the history of all of my life, have I seen so many or our girls and boys and men and women getting strategic jobs in the Government Service, as now! Why, even in the Bureau of Engraving I don't get any money for myself for what I do down there with the Church Institutional program, because that is GOD'S Work but I am a stamp marker for the United States Government in the Bureau of Engraving and I have never seen so much money! but yet I can't get money to build my institution! But I know that all you have got to do is to pray to GOD, and if this is in the Hand of GOD, which I think it is, it will surely come into manifestation!
I have been in the Bureau of Engraving almost long enough to retire, and raise my family. I have four girls and I have one boy, and they all are doing well. I have a girl now, going up to Howard University and studying medicine, and this is her senior year!
FATHER: It is Wonderful!
Rev. Williams: So I don't make any money off Church Work; simply try to collect the money to build those buildings I am going to put down there on the grounds. And, by the way, I had a revelation down there. It will take too long I guess I will have to wait and write the revelation to YOU because if I go into that, I know YOU won't get into Your Business here (the Reverend refers to a long line of interviewers); so I am going to write YOU concerning that. And I really appreciate the time YOU have given me to discuss what I have here, and I thank YOU so much!
FATHER: You are welcome. (FATHER turns to another page in The New Day as HE says:) This was one of the last Proposals I sent to Congress.
Rev. Williams (reading with interest): Oh, yes! This is to Congress, the House of Representatives and the United States Senate. And when was that? Oh, (Rev. Williams reads the date) that was last year, wasn't it?
FATHER: Yes. (The text of this Proposal reads as follows:)
May 6, 1950 A.D.F.D.
Joint Session of Congress
The House of Representatives and
The United States Senate
To: The Vice President, President of the Senate, Hon. Alben W. Barkley
And: The Speaker of the House, Hon. Sam Rayburn
Honorable Sirs:
I have authentic information that Australia desires to unite with the United Sates and be one of the States of the Union. Therefore, I propose the following:
I Propose That The United States Accept And Admit Australia And New Zealand to The Union, And Any Other Country Which Desires to Unite to The United States, For I Did Propose at The United Conference of Nations That They Should Unite All of The Allied Sovereignties of The World And Let There Be One Big United Sovereignty. Now I Propose The Unification of Australia, And New Zealand, to The United States, For They Desire to Unite With The United States of America And Be One of The States of The Union, And Let Us All Have One Language And One Speech. For it Is Written:
'And the LORD said, Behold the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do!" (Genesis 11:6)
REV. M. J. DIVINE, Ms. D., D. D. (Better known as FATHER DIVINE)
REV. MJD:I
(Letter also to President Harry S. Truman
(FATHER then says:) And after then, on last Saturday, do you know what happened?
Rev. Williams: This last Saturday?
FATHER: This last Saturday! The United States, New Zealand and Australia signed a Treaty! It is in the daily papers.
MOTHER DIVINE: A mutual defense pact.
Rev. Williams: Is that so!
FATHER: When I proposed this Truman doesn't talk so much and I don't want him to call My Name, and I don't want to appear as a Person,
Rev. Williams: No.
FATHER: but they are calling for Divine Guidance and I AM giving them Divine Guidance!
Rev. Williams: That's right!
FATHER: I proposed the Unification of New Zealand, Australia and America just like you heard them sing in that song! (The words of the song FATHER refers to are as follows:)
'Unite Australia, New Zealand and America; Combine them all in ONE!
Let them work in harmony One Nation, Flag and Tongue!
Let Unity be our Defense, and Love our Banner be!
Unite Australia, New Zealand and America, and Save Democracy!'
(FATHER then says:) This composition came out before they had any record of them,
even desiring to! Only, I said in this proposal here I said, "I have authentic
information that Australia and New Zealand desire to become one of the states,
or two states of the Union."
Rev. Williams: Isn't that wonderful!
FATHER: And they know about it and they are bringing it about!
Rev. Williams: That is in manifestation now!
FATHER: That's right!
Rev. Williams: I can reasonably see why, coming down the Whitehorse Pike I heard something say, "You come down and see FATHER DIVINE!" I told YOU I had been down to Atlantic City on a little vacation, and on the way back to Washington I had a little inspiration to stop by and see FATHER DIVINE!
FATHER: Well, that is wonderful.
Rev. Williams: I guess that is why Mrs. Williams asked YOU that question a little while ago.
FATHER: About what I thought about it?
Rev. Williams: Yes, about the program.
FATHER: Well, I told you what I thought about it.
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: But, of course, I do not say that My Suggestions and My Opinions in all things would be considered as the Ideal but I usually think in harmony with things that will be the things that customarily harmonize with ME! So that is a great thing. (FATHER, at this point, turns to the middle of The New Day in front of Him, thus displaying a large picture stretching across the entire two open pages. HE says to the Reverend:) Now this is one of our Churches in California.
Rev. Williams: My, that's nice! That is almost as large as the one here!
FATHER: Sure.
Rev. Williams: And who is pastoring there?
FATHER: I AM the Pastor! They recognize ME as the Pastor and we have Assistant Pastors but they recognize ME as the PASTOR of ALL of the Churches under the Peace Mission Movement; and they recognize; they declare I AM the Permanent Head of the Church, with or without a Body! As I often say, "Old John Brown's body"
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: I often stress that when I AM talking, because I AM going to do what I have intended to do, with or without My Body! and My Body shall not prevent ME!
Rev. Williams: That's right!
FATHER: So if every person would transcend the personality of themselves and the individuality of themselves, and realize the Impersonality of the individual which transcends the personality and the individuality the Work would go on just as effectively! John Brown's mission did not cease because he, as a person, ceased to function!
Rev. Williams: Yes, I see.
FATHER: Of course, I can talk this to you because we all, of America, know, according to history if we weren't here at that time we know, according to history, of John Brown's mission to free the slaves.
Rev. Williams: That's right.
FATHER: He could not do it physically by violence and by force, personally, directly but what he desired to do, it went into the political world and it was carried out by, at that time, our Chief Executive and the Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy President Lincoln!
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: And they were freed physically! But most recently I have also proposed and declared that those who are slaves, were slaves and ex-slaves, and ex-slaves' descendants, have a Right to get that which is Rightfully Due them, that which they were deprived of because of previous condition of servitude!
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: It may seem strange, it may seem impossible, but I said, Great Britain and Uncle Sam, they are going to take care of it, every slave and every descendant!
Rev. Williams (deeply moved): LORD, have mercy!
FATHER: I have not said I belonged to any racial abstraction, but people continue to say, "Why, HE is a descendant of an African tribe from somewhere", or something of that sort.
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: Well, if I AM and if I AM here and have been deprived of My Right of Franchise, and prohibited from Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness, as all other citizens, something is going to be done about it!
Rev. Williams: LORD, have mercy! Isn't that just Wonderful! Well, I like that, don't you?
Mrs. Williams: That is Wonderful!
FATHER: And I have declared, those who have been deprived of these privileges, as all other citizens, shall get the right of their franchise and shall get compensation, and shall get it retroactive, from the time they lost the right of their franchise up until now! (Father moves volitionally as HE dynamically exclaims:) You know, it is Wonderful GOD is dealing in the affairs of men!
Rev. Williams (enthusiastically): GOD lives! I am trying to get HIM real in my life every day!
FATHER: This is not a supposition, Reverend. Here is a Declaration!
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: It may sound foolish and fanatical and radical, but I have declared, this is GOD'S administration!"
Rev Williams: Amen! Amen! Amen! and it is absolutely so!
FATHER: Positively!
Rev. Williams: Yes, Sir!
FATHER: It may be classed and considered as the Democratic Administration or Truman's Administration, as a man,
Rev. Williams: Yes, I understand. FATHER: but personalities and personages are limited, in My Consideration! Rev. Williams: It is true!
FATHER: I transcend them ALL My Concept and Consideration and I transcend My Personality! Even MINE! Even though My followers recognize MY DEITY and MY PERFECTION PERSONIFIED, but yet I say, "With or without the Person I AM going to do what I have planned to do!"
When I went south many years ago, I said, "I AM going to break down that line of demarcation and bring an END to localization!" Localities that are set apart for "so and so's" , can't live in a decent place, some places! Now you have heard of them coming from California: one testified a little while ago how I have broken that line of demarcation over there! and some say it is Truman! Truman!
Rev. Williams: That's right.
FATHER: Well, let them say it! Truman is the Chief Executive, is the President. He is the one!
Rev. Williams: The thing YOU realize, the work is still going on, and YOU will transcend!
FATHER: Yes, it is going on, and we shall have a Righteous Government! for Solomon did declare,
'Righteousness and Judgment are the habitation of His Throne!'
I think I had better stop!
Rev. Williams: That is what YOU told me when I first saw YOU about YOUR Righteous Government Platform! (Rev. Williams, at this juncture, again rises, saying:) Well, I really hate to get out of this Atmosphere, but may I have this one (referring to another New Day with FATHER'S Proposal in it)? LORD, I hate to get out of this Atmosphere!
FATHER (referring back to the Peace Stamps): Now we sent out these Peace Stamps on all My Letters; I send these out on all of My Letters of Correspondence to officials, diplomats and representatives of government, and individuals, and on Personal and Private Correspondence.
Mrs.Williams: (glancing down at an out-going letter bearing all the Peace Stamps): It is everything in a nutshell at a glance! That is really Wonderful, indeed!
FATHER: The first one in 1938, I proposed the purchase of coveted Czechoslovakian territory, substituting co-operation and Peace for inhuman warfare consequences!
Rev. Williams: My!
FATHER: They failed to do it because they thought it was most insignificant, coming from ME, no doubt, you see.
Rev. Williams: Yes, LORD. I know, I know what YOU are talking about! Yes, Sir!
FATHER: But this is going all over the land. It is going everywhere now! Then cometh this one here.
Mrs. Williams (interposing): That is the first, isn't it?
FATHER: That is the first, that is the green Stamp. You see, this is that. (FATHER shows Mrs. Williams how the small Stamp is enlarged in The New Day.)
Rev. Williams: And there is YOUR Name.
FATHER: Yes, Rev. M. J. DIVINE, Ms. D., D. D., better known as FATHER DIVINE (referring to His Name on a recent Proposal). And I send all of those Stamps to everybody I correspond with. I send out hundreds of thousands!
Rev. Williams: Do YOU have a print shop in YOUR Establishment?
FATHER: What do you mean for?
Rev. Williams: For YOUR Proposals.
FATHER: Well, The New Day is a publishing company and they carry My Message verbatim. Personally I do not do it, but practically all of My Correspondence goes through.
Rev. Williams: But I mean, YOU are satisfied that they do that? What I mean to say some of these people may not put out a thing the way YOU say it. They change it.
FATHER: Oh, sure! The New Day is published by followers of Mine.
Rev. Williams (quickly): Oh, well, that is all right then!
FATHER: And they do adhere to My Teaching. If there is any misprint or typographical error, or printer's mistakes, or anything of that sort, they make the correction, and voluntarily.
Rev. Williams: Well, that is really wonderful!
FATHER: And without any cost to ME Personally, because I contribute My Message to The New Day GRATIS, and they, in turn, publish anything I give them, gratis, verbatim!
Rev. Williams: Well, FATHER DIVINE, as I told YOU I really hate to get out of this Atmosphere, but one thing I do want to ask YOU, and I really do pray, from the bottom of my heart, that YOU will grant this! Will YOU be a Speaker on our Interracial Day the day we try to bring all nationalities together? As YOU see, here, we have a "w----" man who was a speaker of this program and, as YOU see, it was on the third Sunday the last one we had where we meet in the outdoors tabernacle on the campus. And the place is as long as this building and it is equipped as a Church, with the pulpit, etc., in the background. And we have a floor of sawdust, and the grass growing around, and shrubbery; and the birds singing. But if it should happen to rain, we have a Church building. It is not what you call a permanent building, but we simply have it so if it rains, we can go in there.
But this particular day is the day I feel we should come together! I am trying to work up this program we call Interracial Day! But is it possible that I can do anything to get YOU to speak for us on that day, just to tell the people of some of the wonderful Work that YOU are doing here? I would go to the expense of my own pocket to advertise it widely, in order to get many people there to hear YOU!
Now it is not until next year. Our camp meeting is closed now. But it will be, possibly, the third Sunday in July, 1952. They come out in two and three bus loads of people to help us. It is the only way well, I can't say it is the only way, but it is a way we can raise money to help put permanent buildings on the ground. And when they come out, of course, they bring many, many parishioners with them, and we take up a collection, and that collection is put in the bank for the purpose of raising enough money to put up these buildings. This is one of the ways we have. Of course, I told YOU about the certificates we put out, and we have people who have gone out as our sponsors in almost any city that we can get one who will sponsor our work! We have sponsors in Pittsburgh, Atlantic City, West Virginia, all around! Those who feel that they want to go along with us, as this is a good Movement for GOD and humanity, they are getting names to send in to us. We send that person a certificate and they sign their name and send it back to us, and,
Mrs. Williams (to the Reverend): Get FATHER to answer you!
Rev. Williams: Well, I wanted to tell HIM about it.
FATHER: Well, I can never say definitely what I will do, one year for the next, because it is written,
'Take no thought for yourselves what you shall eat, what you shall drink, or what you shall wear, one day for the next!'
Rev. Williams: Amen! that's right!
FATHER: I believe in living Evangelically, living exactly according to the Teaching of JESUS the Life and the Teaching of CHRIST.
Rev. Williams: I see.
FATHER: But I can never say definitely what will be at that time. I would be glad if it would fall in line that I could help you out spiritually at that time, but I do not do anything physically or Personally although I function in a material Body, as it may be termed
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: but I do not use material or physical or Personal methods, and I do not make a physical effort to acquire the Blessings My followers have in possession; but they usually accomplish whatsoever they may endeavor, and get whatsoever they desire!
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: Because, in trusting implicitly, conscientiously and sincerely, sympathetically and whole-heartedly in GOD automatically supplies come!
Rev. Williams: Come into manifestation!
FATHER: Just like the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit, if you deem it to be.
Rev. Williams: Amen! I understand.
FATHER: From the different angles of expression we speak, after the manner of different persons and different religious convictions and different religious abstractions and affiliations.
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: Some people say, "the Holy Ghost"; some people say, "the Holy Spirit"; but, whether or not, if you are a Christian, if you are a Methodist, Baptist or Presbyterian, or if you are of the Holiness Movement, you believe in the SPIRIT of GOD!
Rev. Williams (enthusiastically): Amen!
FATHER: Well, I AM much like you are, as far as believing in interraciality, and having working and establishing ourselves interracially!
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: But as I started to say that I do not do anything Personally I do not take up any collections, or anything of that sort and we hold public meetings. It is open, the same as the Banquet Halls. It is open all day, just like it is today. This was no special occasion because you were coming.
Rev. Williams: No.
FATHER: It is the same thing tomorrow. You may drop in on us any time. It is the same thing elsewhere and everybody is welcome. All of the different people are welcome! But yet, we do not take up a collection or do any soliciting or begging. The only thing that we do, or the Church or Movement accepts, is that of donations for meals and for sleeping accommodations and for Church cars, and things like that. Something material. I consider, as you said in reference to your Work down there, that you are not getting paid for what you are doing
Rev. Williams: No, Sir.
FATHER: not directly because you have been inspired to do it and it is the Spirit of GOD.
Rev. Williams (with conviction): I sincerely believe and know it within me that I have been inspired to do this Work!
FATHER: Sure.
Rev. Williams: And my wife ofttimes tells the story that if she felt I was not sincere, she would not be with me in the Work that I am doing!
FATHER: Sure.
Rev. Williams: Because, GOD knows, so to speak they have spit upon me, so to speak and I have taken most everything but still I am going on! And, really, I have seen the persons who actually did wrong to me, die right before my eyes,
FATHER: Sure!
Rev. Williams: some of them!
FATHER: Sure, sure!
Rev. Williams: That is the very truth, there is no joke about that. I feel GOD is going to take care of the situation.
FATHER: Sure, sure!
Rev. Williams: But as I say, GOD I really hate to leave this Atmosphere! But I am going to say this and then I am going: If YOU would accept a date for this meeting, we would not have to call it a collection just call it a donation just like I make a donation down there for the dinner today. Because we know it is for the purpose of materially getting together what we need for putting up the buildings on the grounds.
FATHER: Sure. Well, I hold that a person should get compensation for any material thing material food, or any material things that they would have to buy elsewhere. But as Salvation is free the SPIRIT is free I have never taken up a collection and never expect to do it! But yet, I AM happy and the Spirit automatically provides for ME, without any consideration.
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: And I desire to see others blessed to that end!
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: Sure! And I believe you, as you say, you feel you have been blessed of GOD even as I have I desire to see you are blessed to the extent that your endeavors can and will be carried out automatically, so long as they are righteous, and for equity and justice, and unselfish! Rev. Williams (earnestly): I appreciate that, indeed.
FATHER: My Wishes can be as though it was a prayer as though it was a prayer that you might be blessed to that end!
Rev. Williams (happily): GOD bless YOU!
FATHER: I do not get down and go through the performance of prayer. I think you will find it somewhere in My Writings. Almost every week in the issues of The New Day you hear ME speak of John Brown's body lying a-moldering in the clay; and the man who was such a wicked man in Brooklyn, New York, many years ago: he said if they carried his body to the Church they would be sorry for it! He did not believe in the Church and did not want to have anything to do with the Church; and when he died, the people carried his body in the Church and the Church went down! No doubt you heard about it because it was heard of all over the country!
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: That was the Fleet Street Church the Methodist Church on Fleet Street. And the Church went down and lots of people were killed! And I hold, if the "other fellow" can do that, can do that with or without the body I can do it with or without the Body! because I AM doing it in the Name of GOD, and doing it for righteousness' sake, but he was doing it for wickedness' sake!
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: He did not want anybody to take his body in the Church, and his people went ahead and carried his body in the Church after he died and the spirit caused the Church to sink, without the life in his body! So the "other fellow" I use the word, the "other fellow" you know what I AM talking about the "D" but not Divine!
Rev. Williams: Yes.
FATHER: And if he could do all those things without the body that was such a plain expression as a parable and illustration, so to speak, concerning the fact that the "other fellow" may be mighty, but GOD is ALMIGHTY! Yet the "other fellow" can do things without the body and if you are of the "other fellow", you can propose it or desire to do it, and if you do not do it physically or personally, the same spirit of the "other fellow" can and will do it!
So, if you propose anything and desire to do it Spiritually, and if you are Righteous and have the Holy Ghost, and you can't do it physically, why, the Spirit can and will do it, with or without you!
Rev. Williams: And carry on! That is what I tell the people! I say, "Although the Work here has been established, and it is planned, and if today or tomorrow I should happen to die and be carried off of the stage of action, the Spirit of GOD can carry it right on without me!"
FATHER: Yes, that's right. But yet it is good to have Faith to believe and know within yourself that you don't have to die! You do not have to think about dying, or anything of that sort; but you transcend any obstructional thoughts of the "other fellow's" and those who oppose us! I say, matters not what would happen to My Body, I AM going on to do what I had planned to do!
Rev. Williams: Amen!
FATHER: When I went south, when the Jim Crow law came out in the South, which was the first time I had gone south further than Baltimore it was My determination to break that line of demarcation and bring an end to divisibility!
Rev. Williams: Isn't that Something!
FATHER: to establish democracy according to our constitution and according to our pledge of allegiance to our flag!
Rev. Williams (enthusiastically): It is really going on, isn't it?
FATHER: "One Nation, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for All!"
(Rev. Williams repeats these Words aloud, simultaneously, with FATHER. FATHER continues speaking dynamically as follows:) I don't believe in preaching anything unless I mean to carry it out, and I said I will carry it out! If I lose the Body I will carry it out and if they could blow My Body into pieces! I said it at that time, and, in the which, being in the hands of lynch mobs, said to be thirty-two times, and I came out unhurt and unharmed and I AM just the same today! Rev. Williams: You can see it!
FATHER: Look at My immediate Staff and those of My Surroundings!
Rev. Williams: Well, it is Wonderful! YOU really have actually got something today, and so I have it! (Picking up a New Day, Rev. Williams says:) YOU are going to let me have this, aren't YOU?
FATHER: Yes; and if perchance you know of anyone who would like to have any of the Stamps as a souvenir, or anything of that sort, just write The New Day Publishing Co., and
Rev. Williams (interposing): Do YOU know the price of them?
MOTHER DIVINE: I think they are twenty-five cents a hundred.
Rev. Williams: I think I would like to take a hundred of them myself right now! (Turning to Mrs. Williams) don't you?
Mrs. Williams: Yes.
Secretary: Here are some.
Rev. Williams (reaching in his pocket): How much?
FATHER (quickly): No sale for anything with ME!
Rev. Williams (laughing): Oh, all right then.
FATHER: I do not sell anything! Nothing is sold in My Office! But The New Day Publishing Company,
Mrs. Williams (interposing): YOU have been very kind to listen to us and advise us, and I feel that this Movement will be a success because YOU have indicated it is possible!
FATHER: Yes. Well, like that little Composition you heard us sing today, "Why not be Brothers Now? UNITE!"
Rev. Williams: That's right.
FATHER: "Unite under the FATHERHOOD of GOD and be brothers now!" So, just be unified in reality with ME, in thoughts and in mind, and let your Work be My Work, and My Work be your Work and let all personality and all individuality get out of the picture
Rev. Williams: That is just what I believe in!
FATHER: and we all will have a Work that will be incorruptible and undefiled!
Rev. Williams: Well, GOD bless YOU!
FATHER: Peace!
Rev. Williams: And I will say, I really have something to carry back to my people! Goodbye, and Peace to everyone!
(And with this, after the secretaries had helped Rev. and Mrs. Williams to gather up their New Days, and Peace Stamps and after they had also each received a Calendar with a number of FATHER'S Proposals and Mottoes contained thereon, they took leave of our Beloved and Majestic, Unselfish Savior of the Universe and His Beautiful Spotless Virgin Bride!)
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