FATHER and MOTHER DIVINE
Holy Communion Banquet Banquet Table
As the party came in they introduced themselves to FATHER Who, in turn, introduced them to MOTHER DIVINE. As Rev. Harrison from California introduced himself to FATHER he said: "I am very happy to be here not so much curious, but to be able to understand."
FATHER replied, "Well, that is a very beautiful thought."
When Rev. Oxendale from West Virginia gave his name to FATHER by way of introduction , he said, "I am pleased to meet YOU, and I can say with him (Rev. Harrison) not to be critical but just to learn!" to which FATHER said, "It is wonderful!"
After all had been seated, Rev. Oxendale asked the first question, speaking as follows:
How long have you been in this Work, FATHER?
FATHER: I have been here in Philadelphia seven years, going on eight.
Rev. Oxendale: Seven years in the City, but YOUR Headquarters were in New York City.
FATHER: That's right, and I AM still in New York. I have thousands of Followers in New York but I reside here.
Rev. Harrison: My impression would be, I suppose, naturally, being in the Church and having our Followers come through a certain type of method, would it be out of the way for me to ask what, perhaps, would be the requirements to be Followers? Is that only for those who are anxiously seeking?
FATHER: Well, of course, part of the main requirements would be to live according to the Life and the Teachings of CHRIST as recorded in the Four Gospels. Our Churches, at least, the Peace Mission Movement is founded upon the Sermon on the Mount, and we endeavor to live it individually even as it is recorded in the Gospel. But, of course, we do not confine anyone to the specific system of worship but we stress the Life of CHRIST and emphasize the Life of CHRIST in the Person of JESUS.
I stress that thought , "as in the Person of JESUS", because there are those who may consider I AM speaking of the Life of CHRIST as ME as a Person; but I stress the Life of CHRIST as in the Person of JESUS and as exemplified by JESUS of nineteen hundred years ago! I stress that point because there are those who do not know that we all, as this gentleman here, said, (indicating Mr. Blue) should be Sons of GOD; and the time will come when the development and unfoldment of the Life of CHRIST will be made no longer a supposition, just something imaginary, but made a Living Reality! for it says,
'Behold, what love the FATHER has bestowed upon us that we might be called the Sons of GOD, and it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when HE shall appear we shall be like HIM for we shall see HIM as HE is!'
Rev. Oxendale: Well, we believe all of that, of course, and we teach it in our
own particular denomination, and we believe that is the dream,
FATHER: The dream....
Rev. Oxendale: of the Powers to be for humanity. We believe that and we preach it.
FATHER: That is right; but the great thought of it is, some may be more fanatical and more radical in trying to carry out those objectives!
Rev. Oxendale: That's right, in urging them on.
FATHER: That's right. Now we believe in living exactly according to the Life and the Teaching of CHRIST as recorded in the Four Gospels; as we often say, to live an Evangelical Life. Evangelical means exactly according to the Life and the Teaching of JESUS the CHRIST nineteen hundred years ago!
Now someone wrote ME the other day and said something about "FATHER'S Teaching does not believe in living according to the Gospel," or words to that effect, and I said, "Well, why is it not? Why does it not, when Jesus said to the rich young ruler,
Go sell all you have and give it to the poor and then come and follow Me!'
I said, "I AM speaking the same thing today!" And then again it is
written,
'Who is My Mother and who are My Brethren and My Sisters?'
It is hard for the average person, average Christian, to realize they must unify
with all mankind and know within themselves, convert themselves into this thought,
that they are the FAMILY of GOD! and they cannot be the FAMILY of GOD in Reality
until they make null and void the mortal family in consideration or in substance!
When they came to JESUS and said,
'Thy Mother and Thy Brother want Thee out there",
JESUS said,
'Who is My Mother and who are My Brethren and who are My Sisters!" They that do the Will of My FATHER, the same are they!'
And now, you see, that is a hard saying! You will not be conventional to do such
a thing but you will be ONE with HIM Who liveth forever and forever! You see
the mystery? Therefore, you will be criticized, you will be ostracized and you
will be persecuted. But if you are persistent in your ambition and determined
in your resolve; if you are willing to pay the price for GOD, you will pay it
and will not regret it, for
'No man has forsaken all these things," said He, "lest he gain an hundredfold more in this present time!'
I AM gaining brethren and sisters daily!
'Where is your Brother and where is your Family?'
If I would have had any I would not know them now not more than I know others
because you are MY BROTHERS and others are MY SISTERS!
'they who do the Will of My FATHER!'
Well, that is the thought of this exact Life and Teaching of CHRIST as emphasized and as stressed! and until one comes to that place in consciousness where they are willing to pay the price to that extent they cannot express GOD effectively in reality; for the Life of CHRIST must be Exemplified, Reproduced and eventually Personified! We should be the Personification, yea, the Re-Personification of the PERFECT PICTURE! That is My Conviction!
Rev. Oxendale: Well, pardon me, but how does one go about having a physical relationship with Your Organization?
FATHER: Well, if one desires to participate, the same as you are today, if you desire to attend our meetings or participate in the meetings, or even if you desire to preach the Gospel emphatically and accurately as recorded in the Gospel of JESUS CHRIST, the Four Gospels, you are welcome to do it in your own Church and in your own home.
Rev. Oxendale: I see.
FATHER: You don't have to come to ME especially.
Rev. Oxendale: Then YOU do recognize the denominational bodies as part of the Work if they reach the ideal?
FATHER: Yes, yes! It is the same; it is no different. It is just the same as a child in the kindergarten and one in high school! Some have said, "FATHER DIVINE does not believe in the Bible," and all such foolishness as that, just ABSOLUTELY FALSE and UNTRUE, because they don't see ME at all times getting up reading out of the Bible. I do not have to read My alphabet every day, or no other professor, if they learn the alphabet in their infancy. Why should you take your alphabetical card and just be reading it?
We have Bibles and hymn books, especially Bibles, in all of our Churches; and we teach the Bible. But while you can know for your own self I quote Scripture practically all the time, and then I live it and put it forth into manifestation in My daily deeds and actions, but I may not be at all times, just say, "Well, we have got to . . ." Why should I have to read it out of the Bible when as the Brother said here, I have it in My Heart and in My Life!
Mr. Blue (enthusiastically): It is the Comforter! It puts it in your heart what you are to speak!
FATHER (dynamically): That's right! But until a child learns his alphabet he cannot expect to go to the university; but when he does go to the university he does not have to continue to reiterate his alphabet because it is not necessary. He has it!
So that is the way I AM about many things that people might consider that we do not believe in. We do believe in the Bible and we have the Bible, the Holy Bible, and stress it to be read in all of our Churches and connections, and have it at all times available for any other minister to preach from the Holy Bible according to King James' version and we live it and express it!
Rev. Meredith: I may misunderstand, but it seems to me that part of Your followers, they seem to either be calling or willing to call YOU GOD! Do YOU make, or can YOU make any explanation?
FATHER (with a smile): Just because they know I AM GOD! That is their conviction!
Rev. Meredith: They know YOU are GOD?
FATHER: That is what they say. They know I AM GOD!
Rev. Meredith: Well, YOU are GOD?
FATHER: You know the Bible.
Rev. Meredith: Do YOU teach it that YOU are GOD?
FATHER: I don't have to teach anything! That is the great stumbling block, Doctor! The Bible says, "They stumble at the Word!"
'Now who can say that JESUS is LORD except by the HOLY GHOST?'
Now you need to get the Holy Ghost to know whether JESUS is LORD or not! But
all the Christian world is fighting over it! All the gangsters, the thieves,
the murderers, they will take the Bible and say, "I know that JESUS is CHRIST!" and
they have never been born again! How can they say JESUS is LORD except by the
HOLY GHOST?
Well now, how can anybody say I AM GOD or say that I AM the "other fellow", better known as the d-v-l, the name I do not like to call, unless by the spirit of one or the other of them? The one that has the spirit of the d-v-l, they will say I AM! "Yes, FATHER is the regular d-v-l!" and the one who has the Spirit of the HOLY GHOST, if they have it ARIGHT, they will say, "FATHER DIVINE IS GOD!" That is THEIR CONVICTION when that is developed in them and when to them it has been revealed!
Doctor, you remember I retrace your thoughts back to what I said a little while ago that JESUS said to Peter:
'Whom say the people I Am, Simon?" for his name was Simon at the time. "Simon, whom say the people that I Am?'
Simon said,
'Some say You are Moses, some say You are Elijah, some say You are one of the old Prophets who has arisen from the dead.'
JESUS said,
'But whom say ye that I Am?'
He had to get that CONVICTION in his heart for himself!
So now, there were more believed Jesus was anything else saving CHRIST, than they were that believed JESUS was the CHRIST! And Simon did not even believe it at first, until he got the WITNESS in himself; then he was convinced that JESUS was the CHRIST! And I don't mean to say that JESUS was the CHRIST and is not the CHRIST NOW! JESUS is the CHRIST! HE is the SAME NOW as HE was THEN! But remember, Doctor, you may be a minister of the Gospel and you are a minister of the Gospel by the virtue of the fact that you are supposedly, especially in the Methodist Church, Christian Methodist Church, converted!
Rev. Meredith: And called of GOD.
FATHER: And called of GOD, and ordained and sent out to preach the Gospel. Then, you are a Reverend. Now Reverend means GOD! If I call you "Reverend" I AM calling you GOD, and that is all right. I AM not condemning it because I want GOD to be in you! I want GOD to be on earth to talk to ME in a minister's degree.
Rev. Meredith: Well, I am not anxious about being called "Reverend" but I do like people to recognize me as a Follower of JESUS CHRIST and a minister; but I would not think that in being called "Reverend" they are calling me GOD.
FATHER: Well, I know the truth from an intellectual point of view I know what the word "Reverend" means from a TRUTH point of view! I know what "Reverend" means from an intellectual point of view! "Reverend" means GOD and it is just as much wrong for them to call ME "Reverend" as it is to call ME GOD. But in the language of men they do call ministers of the Gospel "Reverend". Even Rabbis, they call them "Reverends". It is the same as "name". "Name" means Nature by Hebrew interpretation. In Hebrew name means nature and when you have a different nature, different disposition, different characteristics and become to be a NEW CREATURE, you are not supposed to be the old man! So it is that in all of our Christian Churches, and I know you know that because when you get happy you say . . .
Rev. Meredith: "The old man is passed away."
FATHER: Yes, "The old man is passed away!" And when the old man is passed away, why then, who is it? YOU PUT ON THE NEW MAN, CHRIST JESUS! but you may not want to suffer the persecution of the New Man after the old man is passed away! (FATHER laughs as HE says this.)
Rev. Meredith: Well, I have been taught to suffer.
(At this point Rev. Oxendale and the other ministers rise and prepare to go as Rev. Oxendale says to them concerning FATHER:) HE is busy as we all are busy.
Rev. Meredith (going over to FATHER): I am happy for the opportunity today to be with YOU and to have this interview, and hope we have the opportunity to come again.
FATHER: Yes, we would be happy and pleased to have you come and speak to us in our Church, if you speak in other Churches.
Rev. Meredith: I have done it.
FATHER (passing out the little place-card booklets:) These are some of our little place-cards we had at our places on our Third Anniversary, if you would care to have one.
Rev. Meredith and other ministers: Be very happy to have one.
FATHER: This will give you some idea of our Work. Well, now, I don't like to detain you, but our convictions on many things may not be exactly as some others' are, but as I have often said, I believe in the Doctrine of JESUS CHRIST, and just what Mr. Truman is preaching, that is what I have been preaching according to our Church Discipline: (FATHER takes up a book of our Church Discipline, Constitution and By-Laws for one of our many Churches as HE says:) This did not just start. This is our Church Discipline, Constitution and By-Laws of the Peace Mission Movement. This one is located in New York, and I just want to let you see and know (FATHER reads aloud from the Book as follows):
'We believe in GOD'S Son, JESUS CHRIST, as the Sample and the Example for mankind! the Wayshower back to the FATHER from whence He came, and as the Firstborn among many Brethren. Therefore, we accept as our Guide the Life and the Teaching of JESUS CHRIST as recorded in the Four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
(Then FATHER says:) I mentioned that because it is quite familiar now that Mr. Truman has stressed so much the Sermon on the Mount.
Rev. Meredith: Yes.
FATHER: He said that would solve all the problems of the world if all religions and all peoples would live it!
Rev. Meredith: Yes.
FATHER: Well, we believe it! It solves the problems for us. We have no trouble!
Rev. Harrison: Do YOU have any Work in California?
FATHER: Oh yes, quite a large Following.
Rev. Harris: In Sacramento?
FATHER: Yes, we have some in Sacramento and Los Angeles and San Francisco,
Secretary: And San Jose and San Diego.
FATHER: All up and down the Pacific Coast and the North Pacific; we have lots of Followers there; but, of course, the most of MY Followers in California are of your complexion. The most in Washington are of your complexion. The most in New Zealand and Australia are of your complexion. We only have broken that line of demarcation now in Australia because we have some few Aborigines coming into the truth, because MY Followers have opened the doors wide for them and they are instituting the Bill of Rights, and we enact it in all of our Churches and, therefore, all are UNITING TOGETHER, the same as you heard that brother speak.(FATHER refers to one of the latest wire recordings from Australia played during the Holy Communion Service at which the ministers were present.) He was thanking ME because I think he was Scottish descent and he was thanking ME because we had broken that line of demarcation and all races, creeds and colors are UNITING TOGETHER!
Now we don't want to detain the gentlemen but would one of you give them a New Day that has a picture of some of our places?
(One of the secretaries gives the ministers some of the issues of The New Day containing pictures of our Churches in other countries.)
FATHER (pointing to one of the pictures): That is Australia. You see, we serve there our system of our Holy Communion Service and universalize it for everybody, the same as we do here, and that is one of the Banquet Tables.
Rev. Harrison: Does somebody at each preside as YOU do here?
FATHER: No. We have Assistant Pastors but they don't especially preside as I do. But just as you saw them passing the food around when I was at the Table Personally, they pass it; and as MOTHER passed it down when I was talking; but they recognize MY EVER PRESENCE and MY OMNIPRESENCE, and they come pretty well getting results! (As they turn the pages, FATHER says:) There is Switzerland and there is Germany. You see, the most of MY Following in Germany and in Switzerland are of the light complexion. Of course, they get together whenever they can. Of course, down in Central and South America it is just the opposite by reason of the population.
MOTHER DIVINE (indicating another picture:) Yes, here you see them at the Holy Communion Table in Panama. We have a Church there too.
FATHER: It is marvelous to see Old Glory flying in all of the places!
Rev. Oxendale: Well, I was impressed with that and pleased with it.
MOTHER DIVINE: Yes, this is Switzerland. You can see the Flag, Old Glory, flying there. FATHER said, "The symbol of the Flag of the Free shall be seen in every land!"
FATHER: And how they in other countries cease to commit vice and crime even as they do here! I mean, they do not smoke a cigarette! Not a true Follower of MINE anywhere will smoke a cigarette!
Rev. Oxendale: Amen!
MOTHER DIVINE (handing FATHER printed copies of His famous Letter entitled, "If I Were A College Professor"): I thought they would be interested in having a copy of YOUR Letter.
FATHER (to MOTHER): Thank you. (As FATHER passes them out HE says:) That is a letter some time back. Maybe they might be interested to have the letter to Dr. Warner. But no doubt they have read it in The Dew Day.
Rev. Oxendale: Yes, I got that yesterday. Thank YOU very much.
(As the ministers prepare to go, Mr. Blue steps toward FATHER to say:) One word; JESUS said, "Is it not written that ye are GODS?" And if GOD is the COMFORTER, GOD the FATHER, SON and HOLY GHOST, THREE in ONE, YOU get the TRINITY! Glory to GOD!
FATHER: Yes, and I had started to say I want to leave this with you I want to let you take this with you, whichever: (FATHER turns to all the ministers as HE speaks forth this beautiful parable, saying:)
If you are a mathematician it does not take away from the Principle of Mathematics! When you become to be an expert in mathematics and become to be a mathematician, you are a mathematician by the virtue of the fact that mathematics has been developed in your consciousness and you can handle it expertly! MY PRESENCE and the recognition of MY DEITY will not take away from the INFINITE DEITY of the UNIVERSE, for it is the SAME! I thank you!
Rev. Meredith and all the ministers: Thank YOU. Good day, everybody!
FATHER: Peace, and many Blessings!
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