Pine Brook Hotel Porch, Pine Brook, New Jersey
If the works of men live after them, how much more should the mighty Works of the true and living GOD, the eternal and ever-present GOD, be seen and recognized in this day, the day of His Power when His people, as predicted the Scriptures, are willing!
Many of the delegates to the Elks Convention sought counsel of our blessed SAVIOR or even the privilege of just shaking His Hand, for they were grateful for His great generosity and hospitality. As time would not possibly permit His granting an audience to all who requested one, the blessings of a few who made the contact, of which this is one, have been transcribed for the benefit of others as well.
GRACIOUS, CONDESCENDING SAVIOR, WE THANK THEE!
The foregoing statements are those of the transcriber, and the interview follows.
Secretary: This is Mrs. A., FATHER.
FATHER: Pleased to meet you, Mrs. A.
Mrs. A.: Glad to know You, FATHER, and I wanted to let You know how grateful I am to You for Your wonderful hospitality You have shown us as delegates here in Your city. We have surely enjoyed Your hospitality, and something has just drawn me here. I haven't slept one half an hour down there where I came to be, and I feel that I have been helped since being here.
I stood and listened to two of Your lectures, and before I left home I couldn't sleep well, and I was troubled with something, gas on my stomach, and I have been much relieved from that and I sleep better and I feel that is all from the atmosphere I have been able to breathe here. And I am so glad because I feel that I can go back and tell the truth about You; because what I have read in the press is far from right!
FATHER: Absolutely! You know the press or its representatives would ordinarily be inclined to oppose Me. One thing, of course--they were hostile to Me years ago and I disapproved of the followers especially reading the daily press or daily papers, those that were prejudicial, malicious and hostile and that would pervert the truth concerning things, especially concerning Me . . .
Mrs. A.: Yes.
FATHER: . . . because, no doubt, of racial prejudice and religious bigotry.
So, on account of that, a good many, most of the papers--even some of the weekly papers--were hostile to Me, you see, and you could not get facts; but since then I have been releasing to the press a few daily letters of correspondence with different people; men of business, profession, labor and trade, and their correspondence with Me, bearing witness of what I AM doing.
Through changing the nature and the characteristics and the disposition of the children of men; through causing them to be NEW creatures characteristically and dispositionally, I cause them to return all stolen goods and pay all old back bills and I make it a reality convincing to all humanity by having such published in facsimile to give the general public firsthand information. Now they are convinced through the publication carrying MY Message that that which I have been saying is true, and what the press and others have been saying is false.
Mrs. A: I have found it out these few days I have been here, and I have just been so happy to have known the truth about You, FATHER; and I do feel like I have been very much helped, and I feel that being as receptive as I am, Your SPIRIT will even help Me when I return home.
FATHER: Positively!
Mrs. A: I have had such fear of storms, and I am troubled so much with my feet that I can scarcely walk, but I do believe that I will be healed after having this interview and just the privilege of having been here in Your place. You don't know how happy it makes me feel. And I told one of my friends that we as Elks, should not fail to write and tell You how much we appreciate Your hospitality, though You were not there with us in the Body, but I know Your Presence was right there--Your Spiritual Presence. And, by the way, I have studied Christian Science for twenty-five years, but I certainly recognize Your Truth . . .
FATHER: That's wonderful!
Mrs. A.: . . . I certainly recognize Your Truth and I think it's grand!
FATHER: Well, there is nothing like it, if I must say it Myself, because it consists of whatsoever is good in all religions. . .
Mrs. A.: Yes.
FATHER: . . . it is not just, say, confined to one group or organization organizationally, but it represents the good of all religions, you see . . .
Mrs. A.: It does, yes.
FATHER: . . . and, as you said in reference to yourself and the benefit you have derived by the contact, it is according to your faith. When you just harmonize with that which is good, it is something like the apostle said on one occasion, and in one quotation he made very appropriate for the purpose of conveying to you what you are now speaking:
'Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.'
By your FAITH in Me, through harmonization. you are tasting of what you have
not yet seen in the full measure.
Mrs. A.: That's right.
FATHER: You are getting a foretaste of it, for it is written:
'Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine;
Oh, what a foretaste of glory divine!'
Mrs. A.: Yes.
FATHER: So, through harmonizing and sympathizing and participating, through harmonization and participation and sympathy, you are partaking of that of which I AM, and I AM whatsoever you see Me to be. See the mystery?
Mrs. A.: I know. And it's more than I can see; these material eyes don't show me Who You are. And I think whoever gave You the name of FATHER DIVINE, it is certainly appropriate; and knowing what I do about Christian Science and what Jesus said when He was on earth, and they asked Him Who He was and He said: 'I and my FATHER are one, and when you see, me you see the FATHER.' And I think FATHER DIVINE means: 'FATHER is DIVINE,' and what You have done in this world, it's only GOD manifesting Himself through You; so it is the manifestation of GOD, as I see it. Maybe my interpretation is very weak.
FATHER: Well, as much as you can see of GOD concerning Me, that much of GOD can I be to thee. You see, that is the mystery.
'According to your FAITH, so be it unto thee,'
and
'As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.'
See the mystery?
Mrs. A. I see it, FATHER.
FATHER: So, by your thoughts along that line nearer to a perfect state of expression, as thoughts are things, and as you think in your heart, so are you, the reaction of such thoughts has brought a desirable result to that and you are lifted mentally and spiritually and you are lifted mentally and spiritually and you feel uplifted to that degree . . .
Mrs. A.: I do.
FATHER: . . . But as you think increasingly more, or exceedingly more, in that line, why even so will the portion of your blessings be . . .
Mrs. A.: I feel that, FATHER.
FATHER . . . but according to your FAITH, so be it unto thee; and to that degree you have established the faith to believe in Me . . .
Mrs. A.: I do.
FATHER: . . . even to that degree have you received, and it will be with you so long as you hold fast to the faith. As I have often said, the thing it takes to get a blessing, it takes the same thing to keep it . . .
Mrs. A.: That's true.
FATHER: . . . but the enemy of your soul will try to cause you to lose the blessing, you see; because he will come in different ways as he did to Jesus.
Mrs: A.: Surely.
FATHER: You see, he even came to the body of Jesus to get Jesus to do something that was detrimental . . .
Mrs. A.: He certainly did!
FATHER: . . . though it was in such a shrewd way, you would have ordinarily thought it was the thing for Him to do to command the stones be made bread so He could eat whilst in the wilderness fasting, when He got hungry.
That was the thought that an ordinary person would have considered, no doubt: 'Well, I have the power to make these stones bread, and this thought comes to me to do this . . .' it was just as a thought that came to Him, you see . . .
Mrs. A.: Surely.
FATHER: . . . The 'other fellow,' better known as the D-v-l, did not come in a way like a person walking up to Jesus saying that, but it was as a thought that came to Him, because he would naturally--as Jesus was the WAYSHOWER--you know how he has come to you and others; he comes in a thought, you see . . .
Mrs.: Surely.
FATHER: . . . therefore, as we know CHRIST paved out the way, He has shown the way that the enemy would come; therefore he did come in a thought; a mind came to Jesus:
'Command these stones to be made bread.'
It was an evil mind, being interpreted as--you know what--but as you say you
studied Christian Science . . .
Mrs. A.: For twenty-five years.
FATHER: . . . and Science does not like to use the word that is commonly used out there in reference to that which they call the D-v-l, and other things such as that, because they do not or did not desire to make it a reality; they desired to render it into its nothingness from whence it came because it was not a reality. GOD is the only REAL . . .
Mrs. A.: GOD is the only REAL.
FATHER: So it is a wonderful thought, and according to your faith, so be it.
Mrs. A.: Thank You, FATHER.
FATHER: Hence, you may develop and increase your FAITH by harmonization and by participation mentally and spiritually. You need not participate with Me personally--I mean to say, you need not especially come here or go where I AM Personally, unless you are led to do so. It is perfectly all right if you are led to do so, but you see, I AM making the SPIRIT, without coercion or without any sense or reflection of aggression.
Mrs. A: I see.
FATHER: GOD is EVER PRESENT, and through harmonization, since GOD is OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENT and OMNIPRESENT, GOD can and will reach your condition if you harmonize with Him wheresoever you are . . .
Mrs. A.: I thank You, FATHER.
FATHER: And the more clearly you see Me, the more legibly, more distinctly you observe the TRUTH concerning the mystery, even more clear will be the way of yourself and your conditions and surroundings. It is wonderful!
Mrs. A.: It is wonderful!
FATHER: So, the substance of the thing to hope for you have received through the FAITH, and you are now tasting of that of which is REAL by the foretaste of it as a sample and as an example . . .
Mrs. A.: Yes.
FATHER: . . . and you can say:
'Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine!
Oh, what a foretaste of glory divine!
Heir of salvation, purchased of GOD,
(I am) Born of His SPIRIT and washed in His Blood!'
In other words, by interpretation: 'I am washed in His LIFE! The LIFE of CHRIST
has cleansed and purified my life and my mind, by the renewing of my mind.'
Mrs. A.: I feel like that has just taken place. And another thing: I didn't tell You that I have been worried all my life with an inferiority complex, thinking that GOD hadn't made me pretty, and that all the trials and discrimination that I have suffered was because I wasn't a pretty woman; and coming here and seeing Your followers being just as GOD had made them, it made me forget that thought also. And also I said, 'I won't go back dissatisfied with myself. And also I had a habit of saying very bad words when things displeased me, and I think I have been healed of that when I heard You say in a lecture that none of Your followers used profane language and none of them drink intoxicating beverages, and I must say that I haven't had a drop since I've been here.
When You said the temptation came to Jesus as thoughts, this morning the thought came to me to drink, and then I thought, 'If I have been healed from this, I won't do it.' The temptation thought it would make me drink. And tonight I should be right at home getting dressed for a big affair, but I felt that seeing You is more beneficial, and I am so happy to go home and tell the truth and so many wonderful things. I said I didn't know how many would come to You in person and express their gratitude for Your hospitality, and I said You, being Who You are, You would know what Jesus knew, that after healing nine only one returned, and I am just so happy . . .
FATHER: It's true. Well, I appreciate it for your sake, and any time you are anywhere near, you may feel welcome to come . . .
Mrs. A.: Thank You, FATHER.
FATHER: On the other hand, do not feel as if though you must particularly come on MY account, as if though I feel you are obliged to come. You are only required or requested to come as the spirit within you leads you to come, just the same as you say you felt as if though you were to be here, and you came here. Now, if you feel that way when the Spirit leads you, it is perfectly all right; but on the other hand. do not feel that on My part or anyone else's part, they have any right whatsoever to try to get anyone to do anything through coercion, for
'In any sacred work when coercion begins, the Work of GOD that moment ends; it is no longer the Work of GOD but the works of men.'
Mrs. A.: I know that so thoroughly--thank You, FATHER--through my study of Christian Science. Even Mrs. Eddy, in reading her biography it tells how secluded she kept herself, and for people to know and recognize the truth that she had given the world rather than herself, that bodily self . . .
FATHER: That's right.
Mrs. A.: And also I know by having received metaphysical treatments, and as I had been told by a practitioner, never to say MY practitioner; there is one and only one Practitioner, even GOD. And what I have learned is only the catechism of what You have to teach, and so it has prepared me to be receptive of the truth of what You have taught; and the great thing is that barrier of prejudice that You have broken down, and it's thoroughly broken, and one of the girls gave me the most beautiful thought--she looked like her (indicating the recording secretary)--she said, 'We don't use the names people call people.' She said, 'We say, 'one like you,' or 'one like me.'' And I shall certainly use that when I go away.
FATHER: Yes, even the words--I think I have spoken of it since I returned to Philadelphia this week, no doubt you have heard it--the word used especially in reference to your complexion is used for the purpose of lowration, for distortion . . .
Mrs. A.: Yes. Yes, I have learned that.
FATHER: . . . to cause people to be discourteous to such a person. It is more used for that than for anything else, and it has also robbed the people of comfort and convenience and the things that life demands; and for this cause I have presented MY Body as a living sacrifice to bring an abolition to such, and I presented it years and years ago. I said:
'I will break down that line of demarcation and that Mason and Dixon Line! As far as human beings are concerned, I will bring an abolition to it and they will no longer observe such.'
Well, it is true, where we hold our meetings in Florida and other places it is
all the same.
Mrs. A.: Isn't that wonderful! Isn't that wonderful!
FATHER: But it must be broken down in the hearts and the minds of the people in question, those who are concerned. They must bring an end to it!
Mrs. A.: Oh, yes, yes.
FATHER: There are those who may be of your complexion, as far as the physical body is concerned, and yet they may have as much prejudice within and express it at times, as some one else that may be of another complexion. But that line of demarcation and the usage of segregational terms concerning ourselves among the children of men should be brought to an end.
Mrs. A.: It should be.
FATHER: It is wonderful! And when it is done away within, you will not carry that sense of connection or belief of it within yourself, you see, and you will express just as you are; and when we assemble, we assemble with the understanding that we will, even in the actuated words of expression, express ourselves as in UNISON, that there is no division as to race or color, as it may be termed. Therefore, we usually establish ourselves automatically in our system of seating and even riding together in a way that you will not reflect segregation.
Some may say, 'Well, it doesn't make any difference if it isn't in you.' I have even had some to tell Me that. I say, 'It may not make any difference, but it is good to put into practice from a personal point of view that which we are emphasizing and advocating spiritually.' Then it will not mentally affect us if we continue to put it into practice and demonstrate it from that angle.
Mrs. A. That's true, FATHER.
FATHER: Now, that beautiful bouquet there (indicating the bowl of many colored flowers on the table), it is beautiful because the flowers are mixed in expression . . .
Mrs A.: Yes.
FATHER: . . . and of course, if I say I do not segregate and then I tell or cause everybody who looks the same, with the same complexion even, to sit together, it is equivalently the same . . . Mrs. A.: Of course it is.
FATHER: I know that old prejudice, which is the serpent, even caused people of the same family, the direct same family, to try to snub the other and sit or walk along with someone else different in the same family that may look a little different at times. All such as that has been handed down traditionally or hereditively, and those detestable tendencies must be overcome by just refusing to allow them to exist within or have a chance for expression, and eventually such kind will come out by fasting and with prayer, which in My consideration of fasting is not fasting from the material food but fasting from the traits and tendencies and desires and the suggestions that those tendencies may make, you see. That old mind will suggest something to you, you see . . . Mrs. A.: Surely.
FATHER . . . Then FAST from it and refuse to obey it. If it tells you to dislike a person or not to speak to a person because they do not look exactly like you, and you have some of that prejudice in you, and that old mind of the prejudicial seed would make such a suggestion, why then, you would disobey it. In the same like manner about fear, you overcome fear by refusing to do what fear says do, you see.
Many times people are afraid of dead people, you see. Well now, you overcome that fear by refusing to run away from where someone died or something of that sort, or by not refusing to go in a room in which someone died, you see. Many times people are afraid to do those things, and the suggestion that is made by fear says, 'Don't go in there!' Well, that is the time to disobey all of those detestable characteristics and tendencies within you and refuse to indulge in them by refusing to compromise with them. and they will eventually leave you, if they have no chance for expression within.
Mrs. A.: It's so wonderful, FATHER, so wonderful! And I have just written back to my husband what I have observed; and even how Your Children make over You, it doesn't swell Your head a bit; You are just the same meek and humble FATHER, and I just want to thank You very much for Your Work and for allowing me to come in.
FATHER: You're welcome. PEACE! Many blessings.
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