FATHER DIVINE
This most interesting and enlightening interview granted to a visiting lady during the Elks Convention held in Philadelphia, drew Living Waters from the Fountain of Life, FATHER DIVINE. For obvious reasons the lady's name has been withheld, but the priceless wisdom of our SAVIOR'S responses to her problem is shared with humanity through this medium.
Centuries ago, Jesus told His Disciples, when they prayed, to give thanks, believing they had received, and that key is again extended by the FATHER in this interview as He explains the importance of faith.
HOLY REDEEMER, WE THANK THEE!
The foregoing statements are those of the transcriber, and the interview follows.
Secretary: FATHER, this is Mrs. B.
Mrs. B.: How do You do, FATHER. I'm very glad to know You, really I am.
FATHER: Pleased to meet you. Take a seat if you care to.
Mrs B.: Well, as I told You in the note, I am on my way back home, and my problem is this: I have a very good husband, with the exception of one thing and that is excessive drinking, and it worries me terribly, and naturally, the older he gets, the weaker he gets, and I just feel right now that I need the prayers of everybody I can solicit, to help me be strong enough to help him to help himself. I just feel that I've gone as far as I can go, and I'm in hopes that in a year's time 1 can be able to move back here to Philadelphia. I think if I could get him away from his environment and his old associates, that perhaps he would overcome this craving for drinking, if I could get him into a new environment. He doesn't know so many people here like I do, and of course my type of friends are not his type of friends; and I have just been hoping and trusting and praying that in some way something would turn up that would help me to be just a little stronger and wait until that change will come.
So, when I talked to a young lady downstairs this afternoon, she said, 'Why don't you talk with FATHER? She said, 'Maybe He could give you some advice,' and I said, 'Well, I don't believe that would be a bad idea.' So that is my problem. Perhaps You can me better than I can explain my trouble to You. But it's guidance and advice and prayer that I need.
FATHER: Well, it isn't anything I do as from a Personal point of view, but all things are possible with the Spirit and with him that believeth, as it is written:
'All things are possible with him that believeth,'
and it is possible that that undesirable condition can be adjusted satisfactorily
if one will make the rightful contact. But it is essential to make the rightful
contact. I do not direct anyone to anything other than what they have heard of
and what they have theoretically known, which is to say, GOD.
Mrs. B.: Yes.
FATHER: Prayer is the heart's sincere desire; it is unuttered and unexpressed, but many times people go through vain repetitions in asking and praying to GOD, even in all of the churches, seeking a blessing . . .
Mrs. B.: That's right.
FATHER: . . . but if they could have the FAITH without using vain repetitions, their prayers would be heard and answered speedily, because Faith is the thing that overcometh the world.
Mrs. B.: Yes, I do believe that. Yes.
FATHER: It is. And I AM not telling you anything but to go to the same One Whom you have always known . . .
Mrs. B.: Yes.
FATHER: Theoretically you have known GOD according to the Scripture, but you want to know GOD according to the SPIRIT . . .
Mrs. B.: That's right.
FATHER: . . . so your prayers can be heard and answered whensoever you pray. You see, that is the mystery. So I say, make the mental and spiritual contact and realize GOD is OMNIPOTENT! Theoretically you know it . . .
Mrs. B.: Yes.
FATHER: . . . You know GOD is all powerful and has all power but you do not seemingly realize you can approach the Throne of Grace and contact GOD, the Omnipotent One, with or without any other person. Your prayers can be heard and answered, even though I have millions of followers and friends who believe on ME and do call on ME Personally to reach or help them . . .
Mrs. B.: Yes.
FATHER: . . . but it is the same thing. Yet through the contact and faith in GOD, the prayers are heard and answered, because they relax completely the preconceived ideas and opinions and the custom or system of seeking deliverance; for,
'He that puts his trust in Me,' said He, 'shall never be confounded.'
Mrs. B.: That's right.
FATHER: So that is just bringing you back to the old landmark from whence you came; and when you pray to GOD, whether it is in words or just from the sincere desire of the heart, know within yourself--do not just think it and be doubtful and consider your prayers will not be answered--but know within yourself they will be answered! Then relax your conscious mentality and still yourself and trust and obey, for there is no other way. Hence, the prayer is heard and answered through FAITH, though it may seem simple to explain from that angle and it may sound as if though, well, you know that, and it is something that you have been taught; but yet if you will but relax now, let go completely--let go your struggle, mental and spiritual struggle, trying to reach something . . .
Mrs. B.: I see.
FATHER: . . . GOD is PRESENT! GOD is actually PRESENT, and your prayers are heard and they will be answered as soon as you let go completely and trust GOD and do not rely on another. You see the mystery?
Mrs. B.: I see.
FATHER: Now, you do not need anyone else to pray for you. You do not need to call on any other god, for GOD Whom you are seeking, through many different agencies . . .
Mrs B.: Yes.
FATHER: . . . is the only One--One and only One that can and will hear your prayers. Now, trust HIM!
Mrs. B.: yes.
FATHER: MY Followers, they say I AM the One. By faith they receive the blessings they seek, because they rely whole-heartedly, completely and unreservingly on the Fundamental in Whom they have faith. You see, that is the mystery. Now, the average person just makes a little mistake in seeking blessings from GOD, by trying to seek it through so many different agencies--just like taking medicine. If a person is sick, many times they may have a physician. Because they do not get healed immediately, they try too many remedies . . .
Mrs B.: That's true, that's true.
FATHER: . . . But now, just relax and rely on the ONE, the only ONE! Your prayers will be heard and answered and you will not need another to pray for you.
I know you have been taught--it is commonly preached and taught throughout the world of religion, that you need everybody to pray for you . . .
Mrs. B.: Yes yes.
FATHER: . . . but CHRIST is the Propitiator, and CHRIST has prayed for you, and your prayers will be heard and answered; the same as I said today, everybody can be as I AM! Why live in lacks, wants and limitations? Why live in a confused state of mind and a confused state of being when GOD is your Savior?
GOD is the Adjuster of matters; GOD is your real Emancipator. Now trust Him and obey Him and you will find your prayers are heard and answered, for it is written: 'Before they call I will answer, and while they are yet speaking, 1 will hear.' That is the mystery.
But when you come to ME, you go to someone else, and you go to someone else and say, 'I want you to pray for me,' it shows you have not fully given your case over to GOD. I know you have some faith in Me, but when you have enough in Me to give your case over to Me completely--not for dollars and cents, for I have never taken a penny for any spiritual work I have done, and I would not do it for a billion dollars; for
'The wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of GOD is eternal life.'
GOD is a GIFT to the world! That is why so many criticize Me, because all I do,
unless it is something on the material plane in a material, practical way, it
is absolutely gratis; because GOD'S gifts to humanity are free! They were not
preordained to be sold. See the mystery?
Mrs. B.: Yes.
FATHER: That is My conviction. So then, if you have FAITH in ME, or if you have faith in GOD invisibly, it is all the same; it makes no difference to ME. It is just the same--same thing and the same One . . .
Mrs. B: Yes.
FATHER: . . . Just let go! Let go everything else and trust GOD whole-heartedly, and as in the experience of a lady right here in Philadelphia now, who came to ME several months ago--she told ME about her husband, just as you have. I said, 'Well, relax, let go and trust GOD.' He has not taken a drink since that very time, but one time--and he started to take one at that time and it made him so sick he didn't take any more. I have never seen her husband Personally, and I do not bear record of even her features now. I AM saying that to let you know it is not a personal affair; it is not a personal issue with Me, you see.
Mrs. B.: I see.
FATHER: I AM not thinking from a personal point of view, regardless to the appearances of the person or persons, for it is all impersonal with ME! And I work from that angle. But as much as they see of ME and know of ME from a spiritual point of view, that much I will be to and for them. Now, it is according to your faith. Your husband can be the same. He does not have to take another drink of liquor, intoxicating liquors, for GOD deals in the affairs of men and GOD created him . . .
Mrs. B.: Yes.
FATHER: . . . Since GOD created him and rules the cosmic forces of nature, and HE can control the mentality of all humanity, much less would one person be for Him to control. Your husband does not have to take another drink of liquor, and it is immaterial to ME if he sees ME or if he never sees ME Personally. He can be even as I AM, as I have thousands and thousands of followers all over the world, and even millions and millions, but thousands right here in this city, who used to drink and do everything that was wrong almost--of course, I do have some who did come out of good families, but there are those who were the most needy persons or people; they are the ones to whom I especially came . . .
Mrs. B.: Yes.
FATHER: . . . and it is true they do not want to drink; they do not even smoke a cigarette. You never see one of My true followers even so much as smoke a cigarette. I do not tell them: 'Thou shalt not smoke!' or, 'Thou shalt not drink.' I do not tell them: 'Thou shalt not indulge in intoxicating liquors or run around in bad company,' or anything of that sort, but automatically they lose the desire to do those things, because GOD comes into their lives and in their minds and they are transformed by the renewing of the mind, unwillingly at times and at times unwittingly. Before they know it, they are changed, and they do not have the desire to do those things they used to do because God controls the minds of men.
Now Scripturally speaking, I can refer you to a quotation in the Scripture that will verify what I AM saying. It is written:
'Behold, we put bits in horses' mouths that they may obey us, and we turn the whole body about.'
This must be fulfilled some day, somewhere and somehow, and I AM the One Who
has come to fulfil it by putting My Spirit and My Mind in the people--My Nature
and My Characteristics--so that they will walk in My statutes automatically without
My telling them personally . . .
Mrs. B.: Yes, I understand.
FATHER: . . . So, you see, the hundreds right around in these different audiences where I AM, though some of them have been underworld men and gangsters of the lowest type, since they have been transformed by the renewing of their minds, they would not even so much as smoke a cigarette as long as they walk in My statutes.
I have long since declared by composition a motto for the consideration of the people:
'I will preach CHRIST in words, but more so in deeds and in actions, and I will put MY Spirit in the people and cause them to walk in My statutes'
--cause them to walk in My Laws automatically--cause them to do it willingly
and unwillingly, wittingly, and unwittingly. When they do not even know they
are doing it, they will be doing it. You see, that is the mystery. That is the
significance of GOD in His Omnipotence, and being Omniscience He understands
how to reach the minds of the children of men without doing anything for selfish
gains. I could not reach the minds effectively if I were doing something selfishly.
Mrs. B.: That's true, I believe that. I certainly do!
FATHER: It is true, because anybody or any person would do something if they thought they were going to get something for it . . .
Mrs. B.: Yes.
FATHER: . . . but when you know definitely I AM doing it unselfishly and for an unselfish purpose, not expecting to get anything, and would not even have anything if the people would give it to Me, why, then you know it is something more than just a selfish purpose for which it is being done . . .
Mrs. B.: Yes.
FATHER.... and your FAITH is lifted up, you see. Your faith is lifted up when you realize someone is doing something that way.
Mrs. B.: That's true. Yes, yes, that's very true.
FATHER. . . and your FAITH is the thing that will overcome, for it is written again: 'Faith is the victory that overcometh,' or 'this is the victory that overcometh the world, even your Faith.' So when I establish Faith in you, you can overcome conditions yourself, you see . . .
Mrs. B.: I see.
FATHER: . . . It is not you but it is CHRIST in you through the FAITH you have in Him Who liveth forever. Therefore, your prayers are heard and answered speedily. It is your privilege then to go on your way rejoicing.
In your particular experience, if you have substantiated Faith and unshaken Confidence over and above all alleged criticism, accusation and slanderous remarks made by people about Me, I will work a work in your day that will be marvelous to you. Your husband will be redeemed from being a habitual drunkard or drinker and will become to be a NEW creature . . .
Mrs. B.: Oh, praise the LORD!
FATHER: . . . by your FAITH you have in Me!
Mrs. B.: Well, I do have faith. I do believe that You will do that for me.
FATHER: Yes, keep the faith.
Mrs. B. My home has been a happy one. I will be married twenty-one years next month. I have no other fault to find with him except drinking, excessive drinking. He has gotten to the place now where he can't even protect himself on the street at night. . . .
FATHER: It is wonderful!
Mrs. B.: He has been held up two or three times, being drunk, and they have brought him home to me with his face burst open one time and robbed another time of all of his pay, and he just can't protect himself and it just worries me when he is out of my eyesight. Many a night I get out of my bed two, three, five or six o'clock in the morning weekends when he doesn't have to go work, and go out in the streets to find him and tote him in. Now it has gotten to the place where it's a joke in the neighborhood. They say, 'There's Mrs. B. -- toting him in again.' Well, I belong to a church and in religion, try to live up to my church, and those things hurt me.
FATHER: Do you have any children?
Mrs. B. No, we don't have any children.
FATHER: Well, that's good.
Mrs. B.: Yes, because they might follow in his footsteps. Anyway, I rate rather high among my neighbors; I carry myself that way. I try to live a Christian life. My husband, my mother and I were all converted the same day. Well, he strayed away--strayed very, very far away, and I'm very anxious to do all I can to help him to get back to where he belongs, to serve GOD; and if he gets back to serve GOD and gets interested in his church and takes up his rightful place again, I believe he will leave all these things behind him.
Now, You brought out a point that's very interesting to me: to let go and let GOD handle him. I have been holding on; I have had him on the Altar for five years or more. That's holding on, isn't it?
FATHER: Positively!
Mrs. B.: Every time I take communion, I ask GOD to take the taste of liquor out of his mouth and give me courage to carry on, and now I am going to cut that all loose and let Him take care of it.
FATHER: Absolutely! You see, the average person does not know that GOD will hear their prayers. They pray and go back over and over again and pray the same thing. Now, just like if you said your prayers last night and asked GOD to take the desire of liquor away from him, and if you prayed again today in your heart or in your mind for Him to do it, it goes to show you did not have the faith to believe that GOD had done it.
Mrs. B.: Oh, I see.
FATHER: Now, you are not even, say, here with him . . .
Mrs. B.: No, he isn't here.
FATHER: Now, he is there and if you prayed last night, you should know in yourself--I mean, just the same--if you know in yourself that your prayers were heard and answered last night, why should you pray for the same thing today? You have not even waited to see . . .
Mrs. B.: No, I haven't heard from him.
FATHER: . . . You haven't even heard from him to see if he has made up his mind not to drink another drop. So it is your FAITH! You must have the FAITH in that which you trust, and rely on GOD whole-heartedly, and be not shaken in confidence, because you do want the results immediately.
Mrs. B.: Yes--Yes.
FATHER: But it is so plain. I recall once it was said that the ministers conference was going on in Jersey and they had been having a drought, and a little boy came along with his umbrella, and one of the ministers said, 'Little boy, what are you carrying that umbrella for?' He said, 'Well, you've all been praying for rain.' You see, the little child had more sense and more faith than the minister had, because he did not believe that his prayer was answered. Now, let us launch out upon FAITH!
Mrs. B.: Yes!
FATHER: Faith is the substance of the thing to hope for; it is the evidence of the thing not seen. That is where the people make the mistake there--to pray and still doubt what they are praying for . . .
Mrs. B.: Yes.
FATHER: . . . and doubt GOD. They don't believe GOD has heard their prayer. Now you have more faith to believe . . .
Mrs. B.: Yes, because You have shown me a different picture altogether.
FATHER: Well now, if you can believe or will believe, I will answer your prayer! Over and above all other thoughts or ideas and opinions, over and above every traditional version, over and above all tradition or orthodoxy or all religion, GOD is GOD to answer prayers . . .
Mrs. B.: Yes--yes.
FATHER: . . . if you have FAITH and believe. It is immaterial to ME what church you belong to--I AM not bothering about that; it's perfectly all right. Belong to whatever church you desire to belong to, as far as I AM concerned, but I want you to have FAITH in GOD and let go completely. Let go the situation and let GOD take charge of it!
Mrs. B.: All right.
FATHER: . . . GOD is present with you but you do not see Him working. He works invisibly and mysteriously . . .
Mrs. B.: Yes.
FATHER: . . . and you will find a change in the man and it will be a change for the better! Just have the FAITH and keep the faith, and then when that is done, you will know me better!
Mrs. B.: Well, thank You so much; and You have certainly lifted my spirits high.
FATHER: So glad!
Mrs. B.: . . . and I will leave it right here with You. Leave your burdens with the Lord!
FATHER: That's right. Well, you know the song says: 'Take your burdens to the LORD and leave them there . . .'
Mrs B.: That's true.
FATHER: . . . and then on another occasion the composition came by followers of Mine . . .
Mrs. B.: Yes, it did--it did!
FATHER: . . .
'What's the use of worrying, Since FATHER DIVINE is here?
Take all your troubles to FATHER DIVINE,
And smile, SMILE, SMILE!'
Now, go on your way rejoicing!
Mrs. B.: Well, again let me shake Your Hand.
FATHER: (extending His Immaculate little Hand) Many blessings!
Mrs. B.: Thank You very much! It's very kind of You to see me. I will start home early tomorrow morning.
FATHER: All right. Let ME hear from you personally because I would like to Personally bear record and have a record of the results you get by your faith in GOD and by your allowing GOD to have His way with you and with the things that concern you.
Mrs. B.: You shall certainly hear from me!
FATHER: Thank you very much.
Mrs. B.: Good night!
FATHER: PEACE!
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